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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Pacer

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:03 am
Posts: 857
There's a 401 sitting around here locally on Craigs. But a Chromed out 4.x Stroker would look great.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Eagle
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Location: Toledo, Iowa USA
.... and 4.0 parts are plentiful.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:49 am 
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Javelin

Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:07 am
Posts: 216
There is no reasonable justification to convert an Eagle to V8 when 4.0 conversions take a fraction of the work for the majority of the performance and a fraction of the cost. I'm installing a high performance 401 into my SX4 right now, so I know that it is still worth doing even if it's costly and impractical. If you want it, you can have it. Don't kid yourself about how expensive and time consuming it will be however.

To do it you need to pull the entire front apart. Everything. This takes about 30 hours to finish, which I spread out over a month for mine. Then you paint and fix rust. That takes about 200 hours which has taken three years to finish for mine. Then you buy $500 to $800 in new suspension and steering parts in preparation to install the front suspension you just tore out. Then you find a V8, which I have a $120 304, a $900 rebuilt 360, a $900 unrebuilt 401, and a "cheap" $5,000 Hi-pro 401 that someone else spent at least twice that much building for a Javelin drag car. Then you find an axle, which I have a $300 XJ Dana 44 ready to go in and a $3000 shortened Dutchman Dana 60 intended for the future. Then you find a transmission which I have in stock a freshly rebuilt TF727 for $500, a very low mileage NV3550 for $600, and I'm considering the ridiculous and costly $1500 NV4500 route. Then you buy Terry's mounts for $400 and wait several months for them to be made to order. You'll be many hours and easily $2000 in parts into the project before you are even ready to start the conversion. Most people will need at least a year of storage for the car while it sits as you put all the stuff together. In my case I've got at least 10 grand and three years into the project so far, and I'm about halfway done spending money and time on it. It can be a huge undertaking.

1) No, you don't need to modify an oil pan. AMC passenger cars and some Jeeps used the same oil pan Terry designed his kit with. Most newer Jeep oil pans won't fit. Most aftermarket oil pans do not fit.

2) Terry only has one pattern. One mounting hole for a disconnect front axle is different than the nondisconnect front axle so that might be a hiccup.

3) The 258 sits off the centerline on Eagles. On a Spirit it sits centerline. On a V8 Eagle it sits in between the two. Essentially this means you can't weld the mounts in without mocking up the engine inside the engine compartment. I'll be doing this with the OEM T5 mounted to keep the transmission aligned as I tweak and mark the engine mounts.

4) There is very little room for the exhaust manifolds and most people grind or notch to make it fit. No headers currently made will fit. One company used to make headers for AMC V8s that directly interchanged with the manifolds without changing the exhaust, but they stopped making them. I found a pair for my Eagle. If you can't find those, you should use 360 manifolds even if you have a 304 since they are internally a larger size.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Pacer
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:02 pm
Posts: 574
Location: Saskatchewan
captspillane wrote:
There is no reasonable justification to convert an Eagle to V8 when 4.0 conversions take a fraction of the work for the majority of the performance and a fraction of the cost.



I like this reason: "It's my fucking car, I'll do what I damn well please". Stop beating the guy up, this is Evo for fucks sake, if he wants to put a Toyota (for example) drivetrain in his Eagle, then he can. Offering opinions is one thing, slamming him right out of the gate is another. :soapbox:

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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Eagle
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:22 am
Posts: 1757
Location: Missouri, Rolla
I didn't see it as slamming him right out of the gate. Other people have already mentioned going 4.0 or stroker instead. After saying what he said he did mention he's building one and give very good info on the amount of time and money it would take if the guy really does want to follow through with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Pacer
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Posts: 574
Location: Saskatchewan
Sorry, guess that did come out like it was aimed at Spillane. It wasn't, it was more a blanket rant, I think born of my own buttons being pushed, comes from having been told so many times that I "shouldn't do that", "don't waste your money", :blah: , just really pisses me off.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Eagle
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:22 am
Posts: 1757
Location: Missouri, Rolla
AH gotcha! Yeah, I agree with you. If you wanna do it. Do it. Find the info you need to make it happen. If it turns out it's more work than you wanna do then change plans! :) The fact of the matter is you can put pretty much anything you want in any vehicle you want with enough money and ingenuity! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Javelin

Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:07 am
Posts: 216
I like pointing out that it is unjustified, expensive, tedious and all sorts of unwise. That is exactly why very few people have actually pulled it off!

Knowing that nobody in their right mind would undertake something is sometimes exactly the reason we go ahead and take pride in the stupid shit we feel like doing. If there is no other reason to do it, pride is reason enough.

If you want a 304 Eagle, nut up and make it. It will be the shit once you're done. Just don't get in over your head and think it's easy or cheap. A great many Eagles have been taken apart with grand aspirations and then destroyed or abandoned shortly after.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Site Admin
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Location: cny
That's a good way to look at it capt, I too have seen many a project car left for dead because it was over the owners head (I too was guilty of this in past years). As others have mentioned HyperEagle made the mounts, but it is no where near a bolt in. Personally, if I were to go for the V8 swap, I wouldn't bother with the 304 (unless that's all you have available), a 401 would be well worth the extra time and effort, and it would be a smokin fun ride. Either way, if you're capable to do the swap, you're capable of squeezing more power out of that 304, a 4.0 in stock form is barely a comparable engine, there's lots of hidden potential in that 304, with a few upgrades.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking to put a 304
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Javelin

Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:07 am
Posts: 216
The factory 304 has less power than a stock 4.0, but that is easily fixed. A different camshaft is basically all you need to wake it up. Generally every engine can put out as much horsepower as it has displacement without much effort at all. Since most stroker kits take the 190 HP 4.0 and make it about 260 HP, they don't really compare with a performance 304 that puts out 300 HP.

The two other big problems with the 304 is the Motorcraft 2150 and the exhaust manifolds. Use 360 manifolds and ditch the craptastic M2150 for a TBI kit and the engine will perform great.

The reason I wouldn't settle for less than a 401 is that the 401 had such low production numbers that AMC didn't bother switching from a forge process to a casting process. All 401's have a forged crank. Since I figure a 401 core is worth about $600 bucks more, that means I'm paying only $600 for a better crank and overbore. To overbore a 350 Chevy and install an aftermarket forged crank you'd be shelling out literally thousands of dollars, and us AMC guys can have it all for $600. Sounds like a deal too good to pass up to me.


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